Posts by Justitia Themis

43

Chronology of George Zimmerman

by Terry in

business insider put together some chronological bullet points highlighting the articles most important points:.

zimmerman grew up in a mixed-race householdhe was an altar boy at his caltholic church from age 7-17he is bilingualafter he finished high school, he studied for and got an insurance licensein 2004, zimmerman and a black friend opened an allstate insurance office (which soon failed)zimmermans 2005 arrest for resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer occurred after he shoved an under-cover alcohol control agent at a bar when the agent was trying to arrest an underage friend of hiszimmerman married his wife, shellie, in 2007. they rented a house in twin lakes.

twin lakes is about 50% white, 20% hispanic, and 20% black.in 2009, zimmerman enrolled in seminole state collegein the fall of 2009, a pit bull broke free twice and once cornered shellie in the zimmermans yard.

Justitia Themis

First, it is unlawful to pound somebody's head into a concrete sidewalk.

Incorrect. If you are a lawful aggressor, it is legal. If you are an unlawful aggressor, it might be illegal.

However, I agree that he will probably be convicted (or more likely plead out to) some lesser charge because of the obviously biased media attention.

Nah. If he's convicted, it will be because a Florida jury examined the evidence and determined he was guilty. If he is smart, he will plead to a lesser offense because a moderately good prosecutor has enough evidence to convict him of murder 2. And by all accounts, he has a really bad-ass female prosecutor on his butt. ; )

I have NO DOUBT, that before she filed those charges, the prosecutor made her defend her position against a TEAM of prosecutors. She had to make it past a phalanx of prosecutor attacking every angle of this case before she was able to put the department's credibility on the line. That's just how prosecutor's offices work. Because the prosecutor has a duty to uphold justice; they are NOT to just seek to win a case. And this is a hot-potato case that no elected official (prosecutor) would want to screw-up.

43

Chronology of George Zimmerman

by Terry in

business insider put together some chronological bullet points highlighting the articles most important points:.

zimmerman grew up in a mixed-race householdhe was an altar boy at his caltholic church from age 7-17he is bilingualafter he finished high school, he studied for and got an insurance licensein 2004, zimmerman and a black friend opened an allstate insurance office (which soon failed)zimmermans 2005 arrest for resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer occurred after he shoved an under-cover alcohol control agent at a bar when the agent was trying to arrest an underage friend of hiszimmerman married his wife, shellie, in 2007. they rented a house in twin lakes.

twin lakes is about 50% white, 20% hispanic, and 20% black.in 2009, zimmerman enrolled in seminole state collegein the fall of 2009, a pit bull broke free twice and once cornered shellie in the zimmermans yard.

Justitia Themis

You're not reading James.

Notice that we don't even GET to those elements UNLESS Zimmerman is NOT convicted of murder 2.

Flow Chart

Can Zimmerman raise self defense?

Perhaps.

1) Is he convicted of murder 2?

2 ) If yes, the analysis ends here; he cannot raise the defense because Trayvon is a "lawful" aggressor.

3 ) If no, possibly. Continue the analysis and examine the four self-defense elements, including the burden-shifting "stand your ground" presumption.

43

Chronology of George Zimmerman

by Terry in

business insider put together some chronological bullet points highlighting the articles most important points:.

zimmerman grew up in a mixed-race householdhe was an altar boy at his caltholic church from age 7-17he is bilingualafter he finished high school, he studied for and got an insurance licensein 2004, zimmerman and a black friend opened an allstate insurance office (which soon failed)zimmermans 2005 arrest for resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer occurred after he shoved an under-cover alcohol control agent at a bar when the agent was trying to arrest an underage friend of hiszimmerman married his wife, shellie, in 2007. they rented a house in twin lakes.

twin lakes is about 50% white, 20% hispanic, and 20% black.in 2009, zimmerman enrolled in seminole state collegein the fall of 2009, a pit bull broke free twice and once cornered shellie in the zimmermans yard.

Justitia Themis

Depraved= morally corrupt, perverted- , Zimmerman doesn't seem to have been living a depraved and morally corrupt lifestyle when viewed in light of his timeline. He seems to be a responsible citizen trying to make sure his neighborhood was a safe place to live- since the police can't be everywhere all the time.

Moshe, "depraved heart" is a legal term of art that harkens from Old England; your common vernacular meaning simply doesn't apply. If you would like more information on the legal term, "depraved heart," I would suggest searching it on Google scholar.

In addition, it is clear that you didn't even bother to click on the link I provided to the Florida criminal defense attorney, because then you would undertstand that "depraved heart" murder is a codified part of Florida law. ; )

Not under the specific Florida's self defense law. This is the basis of the Zimmerman claim of self-defense.

Hhmm...let me answer this like an exam question; that might help you to understand why you are wrong.

Can Zimmerman claim self-defense?

Perhaps. There are are four common elements, or limitations, to the use of force in self-defense in all states. First, force may be used only against an unlawful aggressor. Second, the force must be strictly necessary. Third, the amound of force must be proportional to the force being threated, and finally, the attack must be imminent.

If the court finds that Zimmerman was guilty of murder two (depraved heart), then he can not raise the defense because Trayvon would be found to be a lawful aggressor.

If the court finds him not guilty of murder two, then Zimmerman will likely be able to establish element four; however, he may struggle with elements two and three ....continue the analysis of "strictly necessary" and "proportional force." However, Florida'sself -defense statute, which passed in 2005, includes a presumption of reasonableness. A person's use of deadly force in his home is presumed to be reasonable under specifically enumerated circumstances. Florida also enacted a stand your ground law, which allows the use of force, including deadly force, when reasonably used to defend against an attacker, but it applied only against an unlawful attacker, not a lawful attacker. The "presumption of reasonableness" effectuate a burden shift. The burden shift from Zimmerman to prove that his response was reasonable to the prosecutor to prove that his response was unreasonable. If the prosecutor is able to demonstrate that Zimmerman acted unreasonably in either his use of force or the proportionality of his force, he could still be convicted of a lesser crime.

43

Chronology of George Zimmerman

by Terry in

business insider put together some chronological bullet points highlighting the articles most important points:.

zimmerman grew up in a mixed-race householdhe was an altar boy at his caltholic church from age 7-17he is bilingualafter he finished high school, he studied for and got an insurance licensein 2004, zimmerman and a black friend opened an allstate insurance office (which soon failed)zimmermans 2005 arrest for resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer occurred after he shoved an under-cover alcohol control agent at a bar when the agent was trying to arrest an underage friend of hiszimmerman married his wife, shellie, in 2007. they rented a house in twin lakes.

twin lakes is about 50% white, 20% hispanic, and 20% black.in 2009, zimmerman enrolled in seminole state collegein the fall of 2009, a pit bull broke free twice and once cornered shellie in the zimmermans yard.

Justitia Themis

Florida's Murder 2: The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/FileStores/Web/Statutes/FS09/Ch0782/Section_0782.04.HTM

Instead, committing an imminently dangerous act with a depraved mind means committing an act an ordinary person would know is reasonably likely to lead to death or serious injury, doing so with ill will or evil intent (but not intent to kill), and doing so in a way that demonstrates a complete indifference to human life. This is known in other parts of the country as depraved indifference homicide or depraved heart murder.

http://www.aedmiston.com/tampa-bay-criminal-defense-lawyer/homicide/second-degree-murder.html

Yes, Woods, I think there is evidence for a murder 2 conviction, and you are wrong that the "critical" point is that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.

Prosecutors charge the highest crime upon which they think they can convict. She has the option adding the lesser crimes as an alternative any time before trial. If she goes for a "depraved heart" claim, she will need to prove that Zimmerman engaged in conduct that showed extreme disregard for human life, but she does not need to prove premeditation. The prosecutor will need to prove a mens rea (mental element) of "recklessness." The jury will weigh whether Zimmerman was "reckless" in his decision to follow Trayvon, despite being told not to...whether he was reckless in refusing to even verbally identify himself to Trayvon.

If the jury says yes, it does not matter whether Trayvon attacked Zimmerman or not because Zimmerman would have been deemed as creating the situation..."but for" Zimmerman showing reckless disregard, no one would have died. If he creates the situation, he cannot then legally claim self-defense.

This is one example where the media worked as a 'watchdog' because this crime definitely should have been charged, though I certainly do not condone how they manipulated the audio tape, etc. The audio manipulation bothers me much more than any claim that they tried to hide that Zimmerman is Mexican. That is important to white people because they lump blacks and Mexicans into the same category: minority (non-white). Mexicans and blacks, however, have long had deep-seated racial animosity towards each other, as us Californian natives understand.

More of them are forgeeting an even more important piece of evidence: No one here actually knows what happened that night.

It is a rare trial indeed where anyone "actually knows" what happened. That's why we do not have a legal standard of proving something beyond ALL doubt. The jury is supposed to make reasonable inferences; that's their job. And 'circumstantial' evidence is very good evidence. An inference, based upon circumstantial evidence, combined with another inference, based on circumstantial evidence, combined with another inference, based on circumstantial evidence, etc.=beyond a REASONABLE doubt.

43

Chronology of George Zimmerman

by Terry in

business insider put together some chronological bullet points highlighting the articles most important points:.

zimmerman grew up in a mixed-race householdhe was an altar boy at his caltholic church from age 7-17he is bilingualafter he finished high school, he studied for and got an insurance licensein 2004, zimmerman and a black friend opened an allstate insurance office (which soon failed)zimmermans 2005 arrest for resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer occurred after he shoved an under-cover alcohol control agent at a bar when the agent was trying to arrest an underage friend of hiszimmerman married his wife, shellie, in 2007. they rented a house in twin lakes.

twin lakes is about 50% white, 20% hispanic, and 20% black.in 2009, zimmerman enrolled in seminole state collegein the fall of 2009, a pit bull broke free twice and once cornered shellie in the zimmermans yard.

Justitia Themis

“doesn’t it make you feel a bit differently about Zimmerman?”

No, it doesn't. I never cared whether he was a black-hating Mexican (lot's of historical animosity between the two groups), or a Smurf-hating Gargamel.

I always saw him as a police officer wannabe, an overly aggressive mall cop...

And I'm glad he is getting tons of money to pay for his defense because if he is convicted, I don't want anyone whining that he wasn't able to mount a sufficient defense.

Zimmerman will get justice; he will get his day in court, represented by a capable attorney, and he will be able to tell his story and be judged by a jury of his peers. Trayvon will get the only justice that society can provide: trying his shooter.

62

Illegal immigrant applies to be admitted to the Florida Bar!

by moshe in

law school admits an admitted illegal and when he graduates the fl bar thinks he should just go away quietly?

it's absurd to let illegal immigrant children enroll in first grade and then years later after they graduate from high school or college expect them to return to their foreign place of birth as adults.. "the florida board of bar examiners, which grants membership to the bar, has asked the state supreme court to determine whether it can accept someone who is not in the country legally.

the supreme court flagged the case as "high profile" last week.. "no one who has shown this guy's level of contempt for american law should be practicing law," said william gheen, president of americans for legal immigration, a political action committee that opposes amnesty for undocumented immigrants.. tom fitton, president of the conservative watchdog group judicial watch, agreed.. "he can't practice as a lawyer," fitton said.

Justitia Themis

LOL! BOTR's panties are really in wad because I, a mere 2nd-year law student DARED disagree with her! ROTGLMAO!!

I have no idea what law school you are attending. My law school continues to be in the top tier.

I attend the University of Washington School of Law, a top 20 school (tier 1).

We were taught legal concepts and social justice, besides black letter law. It was illegal to help slaves escape. Do you recall the Fugitive Slave Act? It was illegal for women to use birth control? See Griswold v. Connecticut and Roe v. Wade.

As are we. In fact, the school has an incestuous relationship with the Gates Foundation. Every week we have a "Social Justice Tuesday" luncheon at which we have speakers/programs on social justice.

I'm also 52 years old, so I have pretty balanced idea of what life is like. In addition, I am originally from California, half my family is Mexican, as is my oldest daughter, so I have an excellent understanding of the challenges facing this young man.

And none of that changes my opinion that he should NOT be allowed bar membership. It's lawyers such as you, who can't put their emotions aside long enough to reason clearly, that are giving the whole industry a bad name.

You know, or SHOULD know, but perhaps you haven't reasoned that far...hint...hint...that THIS case has NOTHING to do with immigration! It will not change the law...as did Griswold...because it is limited to the narrow issue of will he or will he not be admitted to the bar. IT can do NOTHING to change his immigration status! It will do NOTHING to change anyone else's immigration status. If a person or group desires to change immigration law, that person or group needs to bring forth an IMMIGRATION test case.

You're just pissed off because I disagreed with you. You are incapable of crafting a legal argument to defend your position, so you are reduced to making catty comments concerning my school rankings and the source of the documents I posted (legal research/databases).

I notice only one link. Something tells me more than one brief was filed.

Well aren't you just a flippin' legal scientist. Of course, there was more than one brief filed. In fact, think about it BOTR, there are TWO sides to EVERY CASE (appellant/appellee), therefore, there are ALWAYS at least TWO briefs filed!!! ; )

P.S. I hope you were posting legal research for the lay members here. My law library has WestLaw, Lexis, FastTrack, and the standard compliment of books, periodicals, etc.

Tisk...tisk..even my UNDERGRAD institution carried those databases, so I'm really impressed your LAW school had those! But, yes BOTR, it is the courteous thing when posting to provide, if possible, links that people can actually access.

Don't f*ck with me BOTR. I give you a LOT of slack because you are an experienced attorney who, if what you say is correct, did a lot of really good social work. But if you continue to come at me, I will come back at you. And your writing and legal analyses skills are not what they once were, or what you intimate they were. With ten years as a paralegal under my belt before entering law school, you wouldn't be the first arrogant, asshole attorney I put in his or her place.

Note that this is not about the Dream Act, amnesty, border policy, or any of that. It is not about race or ethnicity.

This case is simple: A person who is an illegal immigrant wants to be admitted to the Florida bar. This person DID NOT EVEN TRY to obtain legal status in the U.S. - and yet he wants to become an officer of our court system.

This is ridiculous.

Ditto.

62

Illegal immigrant applies to be admitted to the Florida Bar!

by moshe in

law school admits an admitted illegal and when he graduates the fl bar thinks he should just go away quietly?

it's absurd to let illegal immigrant children enroll in first grade and then years later after they graduate from high school or college expect them to return to their foreign place of birth as adults.. "the florida board of bar examiners, which grants membership to the bar, has asked the state supreme court to determine whether it can accept someone who is not in the country legally.

the supreme court flagged the case as "high profile" last week.. "no one who has shown this guy's level of contempt for american law should be practicing law," said william gheen, president of americans for legal immigration, a political action committee that opposes amnesty for undocumented immigrants.. tom fitton, president of the conservative watchdog group judicial watch, agreed.. "he can't practice as a lawyer," fitton said.

Justitia Themis

We are an immigrant nation

We are also a nation that promotes the rule of law.

Here is a link that has the amicus briefs. The Dream Bar Association is trying to rely on an implied contracts argument: he has disclosed to every school that he is undocumented. That argument places Florida schools in the position of policing immigration, so I doubt the Court will bite on that one. A Congresswoman goes on about how this wouldn't be an issue if the Dream Act had passed. I agree, and I think we need some fast-track legislation for situations such as his. However, the Dream Act has not passed, and it is not the law.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/4/15/22148/8090

http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/pub_info/summaries/briefs/11/11-2568/Filed_03-07-2012_Respondent_Brief_Appendix.pdf

62

Illegal immigrant applies to be admitted to the Florida Bar!

by moshe in

law school admits an admitted illegal and when he graduates the fl bar thinks he should just go away quietly?

it's absurd to let illegal immigrant children enroll in first grade and then years later after they graduate from high school or college expect them to return to their foreign place of birth as adults.. "the florida board of bar examiners, which grants membership to the bar, has asked the state supreme court to determine whether it can accept someone who is not in the country legally.

the supreme court flagged the case as "high profile" last week.. "no one who has shown this guy's level of contempt for american law should be practicing law," said william gheen, president of americans for legal immigration, a political action committee that opposes amnesty for undocumented immigrants.. tom fitton, president of the conservative watchdog group judicial watch, agreed.. "he can't practice as a lawyer," fitton said.

Justitia Themis

I hope the Florida Supreme Court denies his application. He can use his law degree to do something else (non-profit work, etc.), but he should never be allowed to practice law.

He is thumbing his nose at everything the law stands for, and if his application is approved, it will be a slap in the face to those who are seeking citizenship through normal channels.

Semper: he could circumvent the law school application process because they ask for any citations and the dispositions thereof. If he was never "cited" for being illegal, he technically would not have to disclose.

I completely disagree with BOTR. I want a lawyer with good skills AND credibility and integrity...one who respects the law by keeping the law.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the new trend in law school; my school, in its infinite wisdom, has accepted a convicted felon (multiple armed bank robberies), AND given him a free ride scholarship! When schools do this kind of crap, it shows great disrespect to all the students who played by the rules.

26

The June 2012 citation of Ephraim Stern

by Doug Mason in

page 14 of the awake!

of june 2012 cites ephraim stern.. .

his book, archaeology of the land of the bible: the assyrian, babylonian, and persian periods (732-332 b.c.e.

Justitia Themis

***

jdchap.9p.115par.9DealingWithOthersasGodDesires

***

. Or in an uncomfortable situation, we might be tempted to mention only selected details, editing them to color the facts. Hence, what we say might technically be true yet give a totally different impression. While this may not be flagrant lying, such as is common in the world today, is it really ‘speaking truth each one with his neighbor,’ or brother? (Ephesians 4:15, 25; 1 Timothy 4:1, 2) When a Christian phrases things in such a way that he inwardly knows is leading brothers to a wrong conclusion, to believe something that is really not true, not accurate, how do you think God feels?

322

My son was murdered today

by truman in

i have been on this site daily, almost from its beginning, since i left the jws in 2001, but i have been more of a reader than a poster, as you can see from my post count.

i know few here know me, although i know many of you through reading your posts.

maybe it is not right to ask for support, when i generally stay quietly in the background of this forum, but i want only to speak a human misery of the deepest kind.

Justitia Themis

Truman, I have spent that last fifteen minutes trying to think of what to say. What you are experiencing is so incredibly sad that any words I write just seem so darn pathetically inadequate.

I'm sorry you lost your dear son.

Justitia